Diggins family history

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Margaret Ann (Loftus) Diggins:  

b. 11/6/ 1919 Omaha, Douglas, NE.
m. 11/11/1941 James Diggins b. abt 1908

....* Terrence (Terry) Diggins
....* James Diggins
....* William (Billy) Diggins
....* Maureen Diggins Hutcheson
....* Patricia Diggins  - Sean,Shane,Erin.
....* Kathy Diggins Kane
....* Mary Ann Diggins - Patrick, Kelly, Brian, Molly.
....* Michael Diggins - Kaitlin, Olivia, Kaleb, Johnny
....* Brian Diggins
 

More pics:

Left to right Michael, Margaret, Catherine, Thomas,
Donald, Mary, John and James
Missing from the picture is Dominick, Helen, and William.

Interview with Margie Diggins October 2004

Tape 1 side 1: 39th Street Schooling, 39th house, 'nick names', World War II ,

Tape 1 side 2 start: transport, Telephone and radio, Religion,

Tape 1 side B after kids interview, election, Fr. O'Connor,

Tape 2 side one: Romance and Marriage, Summary and dialogue, rat story,

Tape 2 side two, broken teeth, Sean's shoe, the tractor story, visitors and neighbours

Tape 3 side one:  choir, Magnolia congregation, friends, family, famous people, Association for the mentally retarded, travel: Ireland, Israel, Australia, Africa, Italy

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

K: First of all mum, about your name – it’s not really Margaret Ann is it on your birth certificate?

M: Ann Margaret

K: Ann Margaret – well how come you have been called Margaret Ann over all these years?

M: I don’t know.  Must have been my parents that done it.  And it wasn’t Margaret Ann either – it was always Margie and that was after my Dad’s favourite sister.

K: Back in Ireland?

M: Yep – that’s what he told me once.  Never told me much more but that was his favorite sister Margie.

K: Wow.  And your mum’s name and your dad’s full name?

M: Katherine and I don’t know what her second name was.  Well I don’t know that there was even one and my dad’s name was Dominic Joseph

(Dominick Joseph Loftus b. 1872 Carrowdoogan,Mayo,Ireland d. 1953 Omaha, NE. Bur: St. Mary's Cemetery, Omaha, NE. m. 1902 MA.
Catherine Hughes (daughter of Michael Hughes and Bridget Loftus) b. 1883 Coorlee, Co. Mayo, Ireland d. 1937 Omaha, Douglas, NE.)

K: But she was Katherine Hughes.  Mum,  tell us what do know about where your parents came from in Ireland or your dad as your mother was born here.

M: No.  That was dad’s mum.  My parents were both born in County Mayo.

K: And they came through Boston?

M: Yeah.  Far as I know.

K: And your mum had a sister that lived out in Boston.

M: Yeah and her name was Margaret but I don’t know what her last name was.

K You used to tell us that your mum could talk to her sister.

M: Only at Christmas time.  It was Christmas gift.

K:  She never got out there.

M: No. They didn’t travel back then.  Just that phone call was about all once a year.

K: And that was the only relative she had here.

M: No – she had her brother Mickey – Uncle Mickey and her sister Nellie.  That’s the three that I know of.

K: So you, Aunt Nellie and Uncle Mickey – they lived in Omaha?

M: For while – yep!

K: Where did they move to?

M: Nellie moved to Denver.  Uncle Mick stayed in Omaha.

K: Did Aunty Nellie ever marry?

M: Oh sure.  Her husband was Pat.  Igle was their last name and the had two girls – Florence and Helen and I think the girls married out there.  I suppose there’s grand children and great grand children – what have you.

K: But you’ve lost contact with them.

M: Yep.

K:  What about your uncle Mickey – who was he married to?

M: MaryAnn – but don’t ask me what her last name was.  But she was Aunt Nana to all of us.  They had no children.

K: So they both died in Omaha.

 Michael Joseph Loftus b.1871 Carrowdoogan, Co. Mayo, Ireland d. 1949 MA. Bur: Lynn, Essex, MA. St. Mary's Cemetery

M: Oh yeah.

K: And they were buried at St. Mary’s

M: I’m not sure that they were.  Uncle Mickey used to take care of a cemetery down towards Belview but I don’t know where both of them are buried.  They had a house there for the caretaker you know.

K: Did they live to an old age?

M: I don’t know how old Uncle Mickey was – maybe in his 70’s. (78)

K: And did they come up to family do’s very much?

M: Oh – they never missed any of them.  They were with us all the time whether Thanksgiving, Easter, Christmas whatever.  It was always – have a big dinner and then the older ones played ‘pitch’ a good part of the afternoon.  Uncle Mickey didn’t ever drive a car that I know.

K: How did they come up and back?

M: They went and got them.

K: And did anyone ever go back to Ireland?

M: No – none of them ever went back.  They never even talked about it.  If it was today I’d make the all talk.

K: So all the children your mother had two sisters here, one brother but you don’t know who she left back in Ireland?

M: I think that altogether there were probably twelve kids I the family but that was a divided family cause my dad’s biological mother died when he was young and then his dad married again.  But my dad always said that he had a nice step mother but his sister Margie was born to the second.

K: But I was talking about your mum though.  She had sister that went to Denver – Nellie and the brother who was here in Omaha – Mickey, a sister out in Boston – Margaret, but how many brothers and sisters did she leave behind?    

M: I have no idea.  Absolutely no idea.

K: She never talked about them.

M: No I never even saw a letter from Ireland.  Like I said – only the phone call to Boston and Nellie and Uncle Mickey being around all the time.  They were always with our family cause they had no one else – absolutely nobody.

K: And what of the houses you lived in out in Omaha.

M: The first one was on 36^th and V.  That’s the one I remember and then we moved.  I was probably – oh about six when we moved up to 39^th and Q.

K: And that’s when you lived until you married dad?

M: Yep.  That’s the only two houses I know.  I know there was more.

K: But wasn’t there one you were telling us one time having to pack up.  And wasn’t it Aunt Kath that walked the whole way.

M: Oh that’s when we moved to 39^th Street.

K: Well what’s the story about that again?

M: well in those days you know you had to hire a car to bring your family up there and then Aunt Kath had to take the babies out.  The babies were probably Billy and Donny.  She went out to Mrs Jellies.  We moved.  Everybody forgot to tell her where we were moving to up on Q Street.  So here she came she pulled the two little kids in a wagon.  That was out on W Street.  We lived on V.  Mrs Jellies was clear out on Harrison St.  And she had the babies in that wagon pulled them all the way to 39^th Street – can you imagine?  She had to look for a house, all she had to do was to look for kids hanging out all over.  That’s the way she found us because they forgot to give her the address.

K: So mum, name all your brothers and sisters again from start to finish.

M: Joe, Mary, Helen, Kath, Tom, Mike, Shum, Jim, myself, Jack, Don, Bill – that’s them.  And their birthdays I don’t know.  I know Shum’s and Jacks and I know my own, Don and Bills.  I guess I know Tommys too.  But that’s all

K: Now your brother Joe – he worked for the FBI didn’t he?  He worked for the Government but I don’t know exactly.  I think it was Mike that had the connection with the FBI.  Now Joe died what year ma in the accident.

M: Now let’s see when was it.  I think it was ’47 – gun accident.  Climbing over the fence – didn’t have the safety on.  The gun went off

K:  And your dad’s the one who found him

M: Yep.  He was sitting in the car waiting.  He was just testing out his gun and everything because he was going to make a move to Colorado.  I guess he’d be hunting but he never made it to Colorado.

K: Then Aunt Mary lived a good part of her life in Chicago.  Who did she work for?

M: She worked for Paramount was her main studio and then she moved to I don’t know what studio.  Do you? Cause you went down there.

K: She took us on our first taxi ride, my first bus ride.

M: She’d take you to lunch every time

K: And to movies.

M: Oh yeah.

K: “Oh Jella” and “The Boy ten feet tall”.  But when she worked for Paramount, do you remember what her job actually was?

M: I don’t know.  It was all dealing with the film you know.

K: So what was the one story she was flying from Omaha to Chicago and she looked down at the corn fields.  What was that again?

M: Oh yeah.  Oh my poor little sister is one of them who lives down in there some place.  She just thought I was really out in the Boondocks.

K:  Then of course poor Billy was killed in, was it ’47 as well ma?

M: Yeah.  Am I mixing those up now.  Let’s see – well somewhere around then anyway.  Bill was killed first I guess.

K: And how did he die again ma?

M: Went down in a plane crash.  He was in the Navy you know and they were flying out just to play a baseball game.

K: This was up in Alaska?

M: Yup and their plane went down and they never found anything.

K: Now wasn’t there some story that when Uncle Mike had been out in Washington DC and got to meet Noel J Edgar Hoover.  Was that that time period?

M: Somewhere in there, yeah. 

K: And didn’t he try to look into it further?

M: Yeah – but there was never really anything found

K: You  guys just got a telegram

M: Yup.

K: That must have been something all right.

M: Yup.  I can’t remember which one – it must have been Jim I was expecting.  I can’t even remember what time of the year it was.  But I know everybody at Church knew about it.  It was on television, in the paper and everything, even before I knew about it.

K: And I forgot about Helen too ma.  What age was Helen when she died of TB?

M: 21 – very young but she’d been in an Institution before anyhow and she just came home to die.

K: But didn’t she say they’d find a cure a year from now

M: Yeah and they did

K: So what year was that approximately?

M: Probably 1929 - (1931)

K: Cause you were born in 1919

M: Yep.  And I remember we were off roller-skating and somebody came and got us kids.  It was a Sunday afternoon,  that I can remember.

K: Was she actually at your house?

M: Oh, sure, in our bedroom downstairs and she told somebody to go get my mother and they said, “oh, she’s sleeping” and she said “oh, she won’t care cause she wanted to tell her” – she knew she was dying.

K: A strong girl

M: Yes, she was

K: How long was she here?

M: We didn’t have her very long.  I don’t even know when she went into the – we wouldn’t call it an Institution.  I don’t know what they called it.

K: Like a hospice or a hospital of some sort.

M: It was a regular place for people with tuberculosis and I think it was in some place like Carney or some place like that

K: Not even in Omaha

M: No

K: Do you remember your parents going to visit her at all?

M: No – they could have without me knowing it

K: That’s true – you were little

M: Well I don’t know that anyone ever did or how they would have even gotten there – by bus I spose.

K: Yeah.  And how old were you mum when your mother died?

 Catherine Hughes (daughter of Michael Hughes and Bridget Loftus) b. 1883 Coorlee, Co. Mayo, Ireland d. 1937 Omaha, Douglas, NE.
 

M: I’d say 18

K: But how old was she when she passed away

M: What did I say she was – perhaps 56  - (54)

K: Is that all?

M: Very young

K: And you think it might have been colon cancer?

M: I think so, they never talked about things in those days.  We don’t know for sure but I just figured it out myself.

K: Now did she die at home

M: No she died in the hospital

K: In too much pain huh.

M: Yep.  That wouldn’t happen today I’m sure.  All the new medications.  I mean the colon cancer – I don’t know about that.

K: And your dad?

  Dominick Joseph Loftus b. 1872 Carrowdoogan,Mayo,Ireland d. 1953 Omaha, NE. Bur: St. Mary's Cemetery, Omaha, NE. m. 1902 MA

M: My dad was what – 72 (81? Marg said he was about the same age as Catherine when she died) when he died and all I ever knew was they had on his certificate – pneumonia.  But then that pneumonia gets people when they’ve something else, just like this Christopher Reeve.  Pneumonia is what got him even though that wasn’t his main illness.

K: But when your mum passed away, dad would have been around the same age about 56.

M: I think he was probably a couple of years older

K: Did he continue to live in the house on 39^th

M: Oh sure – yep – with Billy and Donny and Jack - were still there too with him there you know

K: Is that when aunt Kath moved in just to kind of help.  Aunt Kath and uncle Joe

M: She was there for awhile and she moved over on – just off 13^th street.  So then it was just my dad and the boys.  I don’t even remember how long that was

K: But you used to kind of say that you were your dad’s favourite

M: I thought so, cause I used to get a quarter every so often – yep

K: Well you were named after his favourite sister

M: That’s what he told me but it was never Margaret – it was Margie, so he must have called his sister Margie too

K: Right.  Was he very strict with you about going out to dances and things like that.

M: Oh, he never said boo! to me

K: It was my mother – as far as discipline went, not my dad.  I went to him for protection

B: Now, Marge we might ask you about your schooling.  What it was like going to school perhaps some of the funny things that happened.

M: I went to St. Mary’s all through grade school – the Dominicans and they were just sure that I was going to Kentucky to become one of them.  It was a good time right through grade school.  We lived about three blocks from our school.  It was home at noon time for lunch and then back to school.  But we had a lot of nice nuns.  I never thought that they were tough or anything.  They were in a certain way, if you didn’t get your decimals in the right place.  Give you a wack on the knuckles with a rule you know or if you misbehaved – it was mostly boys.  Take you in the cloak room and give you a few wacks with the stop paddle you know what they used out to stop traffic.  But no, it was good grade school – a lot of fun.  I know Kathy wanted me to tell you about the fire escape one.  Us kids made our own fun back then anyway.  We didn’t sit in front of the TV all day.  Crawl up the fire escape and slide back down.  Somebody always had to stand down below to make sure the priests wouldn’t come over and catch us doing it.  Cause it was a no, no.  So the one time it was my turn to stand down below and I did.  And I told them all the priest was coming.  They all had their shoes off you know, cause you didn’t climb up there.  And I ran through the grave yard.  I thought he didn’t see me.  I don’t know I would have done that if I was thinking clearly.  I ran through the graveyard and I thought he didn’t know I’d gone there.  He knew who I was.  But anyhow, he took all the shoes and sox over to the nuns and some of them were insulted cause they’d hold up the sox and say: “Who’s stinky things are these?”  And there was this one girl you know was kind of persnickety anyhow. Oh, she was insulted to think.  But anyhow then the next day in school the priest was walking down the hall and he looks in our classroom.  “Hey, little Loftus, I’m going to tell your dad on you”.  So I got caught but he never did tell anything.  And on the school ground we know we weren’t supposed to be on the swings in the evening or after school hours – you know.  That was a big no, no.  So we’d go swing and the nuns would come out, tell us to get off the swings – go home.  So we did but we knew that we were going to get hollered at anyhow.

B: Now Marge did you find school easy and did you have a favourite subject you’d like to always do?

M: I don’t know that it was real easy.  It wasn’t terribly hard.  It wasn’t that easy either, but I think that my favourite subject was either geography or spelling.  Not Arithmetic as we called it then.  Now they call it Math.

B: And did you have music in those days cause I heard that you loved singing.

M: Oh yeah. We did

B; And you had a choir?

M: We had a choir from the time I can remember and we had practice too you know.  We sang for all the funerals.  No adults ever sang, it was always little grade school choir that sang and some weddings – mostly funerals though.  Weddings you’d get paid for, funerals you didn’t.

B: We’d get paid for weddings too as altar boys, you know.  Now where do you get you singing ability from, from your mother or someone?

M: Dad.  But not any more.  Yes, Shum and I used to sing together in Church too.

B: Did you ever think that you’d ever want to take proper singing lessons?

M: Never even thought about it.  I think I thought I was good enough.  What we needed for anyhow.  I think that most of the men in my family could sing – somewhat.

B: And I heard you used to sing a lot in the house here.

M: Oh, yes, I always sang to the kids.  Their dad was the worst though.  He couldn't carry a tune in a bucket but he sang to them and he sang the babies to sleep in self defence.

B: Now Marg after grade school you went on to High School, what was that like?

M: It was OK – it was a Public School.  I’d really have like to have gone on to a Catholic School but the money wasn’t there for tuition.  So we had to go to a Public School.  And the Education, …… I don’t know.  It was there.

B:  And how far did you do up to

M: I finished High School

B: To grade 12 was it?

M: Yep

K: Did you have any aspirations about going on to College?

M: Ah, yeah, sometimes, well I think mostly what I really wanted to do was go to a Catholic High School and then beyond that ……. Cause I don’t know.  When you got though High School you though you had something.

K: Yes, well you did pretty much.  So what did you do after High School before you married dad?

M: Nothing. Absolutely nothing.  No, No that wasn’t my fault, I wanted to baby sit or something and my mother just plain “no!”.  I could have baby sat even when I was in High School a couple of door over from us.  She wouldn’t let me baby sit.  I don’t know what the reason was.

K: So between the time you graduated High School and you married dad

M: I did absolutely nothing

K: You were a lady of leisure

M: I was – that was just about a year you know but even so.  I never did know why she wouldn’t let me baby-sit or do anything else.

K: Now did you talk about Synall Hall and how you guys used to.  Cause you did like gymnastics and stuff

M: Mostly, my gymnastics were done at Souths though.  And I was, if I had to say so, if I had some training I could have been pretty good but littler, I used to do them at home you know.  Do them out in the yard.  Entertain the neighbours and they thought they were really treating me, they’d butter bread and put sugar on it and thought they were giving me something.  And when they weren’t looking, I throw it behind this garage.  Yeah, they thought they were really giving us something.  Eleven kids in the family they’d probably thought those poor kids don’t get butter and stuff.  But once in a while they’d give me a nickel.  Then that was big money you know.

K: What could you buy with a nickel ma?

M: Oh, you could get an icecream cone or candy bar

K: And that bridge you played off there

M: Oh, the railroad bridge

K: How far up off the tracks was that?

M: Gosh it was way up

K: Mabee, 100 foot, 200 foot?

M: Something like that

K: Did you ever see it Brian, it was a hell of a drop.  Now what did you guys actually do?  You walked on the cat walk.

M: Yup.  But the worst thing was when we had the rope hooked to a tree and we swung out over the railroad tracks on it.  Nothing, my mother never knew anything of this went on.  She never knew we were anywhere near the railroad tracks.  We had a lot of fun down there.  We had box cars too.

K: You did – how far did you ride them.

M: Oh, just a little ways cause they were kind of whatever they call it ‘shifting’ and jumped back off again.

K: And describe your house there on 39^th and Q ma.

M: It’s a big house.  It’s still there.  I think they made it into apartments at one time.  It isn’t anymore.  Shaylene told me not very long ago that one of her friends had been living in the basement.  The basement was nice when we were there.

K: You had a bathroom upstairs and downstairs

M: Yes.  And I could roller-skate down in the basement and things like that.

K: And your mum had a parlour

M: That’s what they called them.  First you’d come in the front room door, off to the left was what they called the reception room and they just had a couch in there and there was a big bench that was built into the wall with a telephone set and I spose, not in our time, cause we didn’t think of it as reception or anything.  I spose in times gone by people just sat and waited there to be let into the rest of the house.  Then off to that would have been the living room, a big dining room, a bathroom, a big bedroom and a great big kitchen.

K: You ate in the kitchen

M: Always except on holidays

K: Then you ate in the dining room huh?

M: Sometimes.  Mostly it was the adults that ate in the dining room.  Kids all ate in the kitchen.  But you know like I said, growing up with chicken, do you remember I told you.  I always thought that we were gypped cause we were always given the breast the white meat.  All us kids, all we wanted was the leg.  We didn’t know that they were giving us the best part of the chicken.

K: And what did the upstairs look like ma?

M: The upstairs there was three big bedrooms, you could get like two beds in each room.  That’s how big it was.  Then you know a complete bath, a great big hallway where you could have set up another bed, sometimes there was a baby bed set up out there.  It was a nice big house.  All your washer and everything was downstairs in the basement – lines where you could hang your clothes.  It was a nice place.  I’d like to go back in sometime, but maybe its not apartments anymore.  Then again maybe those people moved out since we were there you know.  The neighbourhood isn’t as nice as it used to be.

K: Now who were the people who lived around you ma that you always talked about ma?

M: The Mc Kernans.  I know Margaret died a couple of years ago and was only Ann left and I don’t know if she’s still alive or not and then there’s another sister Clara who lives in some place like Arizona.  They said a long time ago when I was there, whenever Claire comes back we’ll call you and get together but it never happened.  And those two girls never married.  Ann had a job, Margaret didn’t.  Margaret just stayed home and took care of the house.

K: But who’s the one you told the funny story about, you stayed with and she just said that he was her dead husband.

M: Oh, Mrs Jelly.  And I don’t even know what her first name was.  Back then everybody was Mr.or Mrs.  You didn’t address them as their first name.  And I used to walk home with her once and awhile clear out there on 36^th and Harrison I think.  She lived clear out there and I’d walk home with here at night.  She was one of those who heard things too.

K: And did you stay overnight with her once.

M: Oh, I stayed overnight with her and I sat in the chair and I said “I heard a noise” She said “That’s just George.  George had been gone for a couple of years.”

K: Did it scare you?

M: Not really.  I don’t even know why I was even walking around for. What was I going to do, I wasn’t that big.  But I wasn’t scared of the devil himself, that’s what they figured.  She needed somebody, she wouldn’t be alone.  Cause by the time she walked from our house which was 39^th and Q to clear out to 36^th and X or Harrison.  Once and while we’d stop at the priest’s house there at St. Peter and Paul’s.  She was good friends with everybody, all the priests and everything.  She had a glass eye. She went to baseball game and a ball hit her in the eye.  Yep – she lost her eye.  Mr Jelly and Mrs. Jelly and their son’s name was Jim – Jim Jelly.

K: Oh no, why couldn’t they have named him Tom or something that wasn’t an alliteration.

M: No Jimmy Jelly

K: “Jimmy Jelly” …….. oh no!  That’s painful.  Hey speaking of scary things can you tell the story a little bit, like your dad and how he went to mass every morning before he worked at Cutterheahs

M: No that was just on Sundays and he started out with the 5:30 mass, then the 7:30 mass then he came home in-between because 9 o’clock was the kids mass.  Then he was back there for the 10:30 mass to take up the collection.  Make sure they put their money in the collection box cause if they didn’t he’d give them a little bump with the collection box.

K: And what did one friend say?

M: The Mc Kearnan girl came over and said to my dad “Did you notice that I had on new dress on today in church?”  He said “What I noticed is that you didn’t put anything in the collection.”

K: Oh, dear, oh no!  Wasn’t there some kid or something

M: Oh you’re talking about yeah Dominic – at that part they thought he was saying “Dominic go frisk them” (Dominis Forviscum).  Cause about that time up comes my dad taking the collection.  He believed that, he was a grown up when he told me that he said “I thought that’s what it always meant”  He was a neighbour and his name was Mc Laughlin.  I don’t know which Mc Laughlin it was.  Yep, Dominic go frisk them.

K: Did he go to mass every morning before he went to work

M: No.  Through lent, we all went to mass every morning.  What did we have.  We had 5 o’clock mass.  We went to mass at 5 o’clock and then came home and left for school or work.  We had evening things too.  Cause in grade school we had them.  You weren’t sposed to miss mass in the morning either you know or you’d better come up with a good excuse if you did miss it through the school year.  Mass was at 8 o’clock and then we went to class after that.  We started at 9.  So you didn’t have any excuse.  Like I said, if you did have an excuse for missing mass, it better be a good one.

K: And what’s that story about your dad and that spirit that walked behind him out of St. Mary’s graveyard or whatever.  How it followed him up to the doors of St. Mary’s, didn’t come in.  Eventually the spirit followed him in and he didn’t hear the footsteps any longer.

M: No – it must have been your dad telling you something, not me.  The only thing is the Irish always had.  You didn’t go in the graveyard – ever.  Those guys would give you a wack on the legs you know.  Nobody wanted to go past a cemetery at night.  If you did you went pretty fast.  But we hardly ever left home anyhow.  I often wondered about Aunt Kath and that if they had to go past the cemetery at night I bet they went running.  Wouldn’t frighten me now

K: Hey, ma, we’re going to talk about the nick names you had for each other

M: Let’s see.  Aunt Kath was ‘scitters’ and I think that was suppose to kind of.  Because everybody swore that when she slept, she slept with her eyes partly opened – slithers like.  And then Joe was ‘Doc’ because he was the one who had the education and everything from St. Louis University when he was studying for the priesthood.  Those days you were lucky to find out anything, you were lucky to find out he had even been in a University.  Mary didn’t have one.  Helen, her second name was supposed to be Barbara and they used to call her Barbara College, so she never wanted anyone to know that that was her name.  Then of course Tommy – ‘old timer’ that’s because he might get there on time or then he might not.  The Mike was ‘white head’ because he was kind of blondish but we called him ‘whitey’ and he hated it.  He was ready to fight.  Of course Shum was Shum all the time – his real name was James.  When he was little he wanted to nurse and he couldn’t say some or whatever – he’d say ‘Shum, Shum’.  Me, I was ‘Bargie’ or Mrs Miller because she was the little gossip, and that’s what I was.  I told everybody, everything.  When my mother would have friends over, lady friends, they’d usually sit around the kitchen table with the table cloth hanging down and I’d be underneath there and never move till I’d got in on all the gossip and I might just pass that on to anyone who might want to hear.  So they finally got to the point where they got looking under the table cloth before they ever sat down.  So that was Mrs. Miller.  Bargie cause I was always barging into everything.

K: And Uncle Jack called you that mostly up until the day he died.

M: Yep.  We’d exchange the peace sign in church.  He’d be Bargie and I’d call him ‘Johnny Bell’.  Donny never had any nick names.  Billy never had any nick names – they were the youngest

K: Any other memories from your childhood ma?

M: No – but they were good memories though.  Big family.  Oh yeah  Girls  go out half dressed anymore.  In our house you didn’t even put on shorts and go outside.  If you had shorts on you stayed in the house or if you went outside, you pulled a blanket around you on the front porch.

K: And your dad was very protective of you wasn’t he

M: He was.  I didn’t think he was that much yep

but whenever I’d get into trouble I’d run to his room to him

K: So you’re mum was kind of the disciplinarian and your dad

M: No, he didn’t do anything.  I think Mary and that used to say he was when they were kids but maybe he was tired out by the time we came along. But no, I never had to worry, ever, ever, ever.  Never got a harsh word, never got a smack from him or anything in my whole life.  With my mother I did.  I got plenty of them.  Donny was the funny one.  I think it was Donny.  We had a kind of a cloak room as you came in the kitchen door and she was going to wack him on the legs.  He’d go through the whole line of coats and pull them down on him.

K: To prevent himself from getting smacked huh

M: Bill used to go down to the basement, we used to keep fruit and stuff there.  He’d come up with stuff under his shirt.  “Now me have bananas and apples”

K: Sounds like he was a cute little kid

M: Yeah and the year Hoover and Smith ran against each other.  Donny and Billy being just two years apart.  People down at the grocer store.  Whoever would be for Hoover – they knew we were a Democratic family.  However would be for Hoover got the big cookie.  You couldn’t change Bill.  Don would take the big cookie – he wasn’t so dumb.

K: So did all the kids go through St. Marys ma

M: Everyone of us ………..  well I’m not sure about the older ones.  I don’t think so.  I think Joe and Mary and I’m not sure about Helen and Catherine because they had belonged to St. Agnes Parish before.  Years ago that used to be the Irish Parish long before St. Marys was.  Now its mixed.

K: But didn’t you used to say when you were growing up it was like a little United Nations kind of.  It was different ethnic groups, it wasn’t just Irish kids.

M: In our neighbourhood it was mostly Irish – in our Church Parish.  Now it isn’t of course.  When I went to High School – no that was a mix.

K: There must have been a lot of immigrants that worked in the packing houses

M: Oh sure but mostly blacks you know – beautiful people you know.  In fact I used to help them out in High School.  They’d sit next to me and didn’t know sycum so I’d help them when we’re having a test or whatever.  Oh they got through the class anyhow

K: Where did you’re dad work – what packing house

M: He worked at Cudaheys at first for many years when he first – I know on the birth certificate it’s got soap maker.  That’s what he done.  After that he went out to – they just tore it down a year ago – that was a detriment you know.  I can’t think what the name of that one was.  There was Cudaheys and Swifts was there too.  He never worked at Swifts, Donny worked there for years until he finally retired.  Mike and Tom they worked at Cudaheys for years while they were going to school before they got their other jobs.  There’s Amours there – all those were right through there.

K: That was in the hey day, when Omaha was the biggest packing house in the world.

M: That’s why I said Brian’s stuff that he eats, - you go by there – that fertilizer plant – and that’s what the Vegemite smells like

K: So ma you brother Tom went on to work for General Electric and Uncle Shum went on to work for General Motors and Mike with the Police Department, and Donny with Swifts and Jack was a meat Inspector after World War II

K: Who of the brothers fought in World War II and where did they fight?

M: Shum was in the Pacific, Jack was in the Pacific – Tom, well he was at the battle for the bulge and all through there.  Three of them and of course Bill was in but he didn’t get into any big skirmishes or anything.  He was in the Navy – just stationed in Alaska.

K: Did he actually go in after the War was over.

M: I think it was over.  Just like Tige did, he went in after.  He was stationed in Japan – Tiger was

K: And Uncle Jack got shrapnel in his head?

M: Yeah and it remained there till the day he died.  But if he hadn’t had his helmet on, he wouldn’t have just had the shrapnel, he would have been dead.

K: Hadn’t someone yelled to him to put it on

M: No, he had just finished saying his Rosary and he put his helmet back on

K: So, it was the good Lord saying ‘get that back on’.  And of course during World War II you were out here on the farm and it was rations.  Did you actually have ration cards.

M: Oh sure, I wish I would have saved the books.  We did have one around here for awhile but I don’t know what ever became of it.  You had so much to get meat with, to get gas with, butter, sugar ……. You learnt to do without a lot of things.  I leant to make things with honey and syrup.  Sorghum was OK but I didn’t like it.  Over there where Hodges lived, they used to make sorghum over there all the time – so your dad like it and older people liked it – older than me I mean.  They liked it on pancakes and everything – no me I thought it was yucky.  But they used to tell stories about it – you never knew what you were getting over there because once in awhile they used to pull a chicken out of there, that flew in and got stuck in the molasses and they they just went ahead and bottled it up.  You had to almost take your own cans or bottles or jars.  I never even like the smell of it.  I never used it but we used to put it in ginger bread a lot.

K: But during your childhood you always had plenty of food

M: That’s what we always had – plenty of food.  You didn’t snack in between all the time.  You used to sit down to three big meals a day – you didn’t need  to be snacking and no kid ever looked for it as far as I know.

K: But what was the story about your house being a hobo stop

M: Yeah – because they must have marked it out because if you ever stopped at our house you were always fed.  Oh, we used to make sandwiches – I don’t care what it was.  We’d make them out of anything – take them down to the bridge.  Give them to the hobos under the bridge – can you imagine doing that now?  We always fed the hobos.

K: Do you remember anything else from your childhood - riding box-cars, trams.

M: Mostly hop in the big cattle trucks

K: You did that too?

M: Yup.  We’d go down to 40^th street.  There there was an incline all the way up, we get on the back of the cattle trucks.  We’d jump off when we got to our block.  We’d go about 3 or 4 blocks.

K: Weren’t they kind of stinky?

M: Sure, but who cares, kids didn’t care then.  But I think when we used to have fun in when we’d get the old bill fold and put the long rope on it, throw it out in the main street so that cars would come along.  They’d be a bill fold laying there – by the time they got out of their car, we had that bill fold pulled in behind the building.

K: Oh no ma, you guys were scallywags weren’t you?

M: Yep – like I said, you made your own fun.  We always had a baseball games in the street.  We jumped with a big rope across the street.  We played football in the street – we did everything in the street.  Well there weren’t that many cars for one thing.

K: So you didn’t really go to the movies, pictures or anything?

M: Who could afford to go to movies.  Once in awhile we got to go.  But once and while we went on our own.  We knew how to open the back door.  I shouldn’t be telling all this – I could still go to gaol.  But we didn’t get to go to too many movies – there wasn’t that much money to be spent.  We’d go home at noon to have lunches.  It would be our leftovers from the night before – you know fried potatoes and stuff like that.  Other kids would go home and have a peanut butter sandwich.  We thought they were really living in the height of luxury.  We had a meal – they had a sandwich.  And when we could go down to the store once in awhile, you used to buy peanut butter and they used to put it in a little cardboard carrier like carry outs today.  You could buy a dimes worth and have enough for the bunch of us to eat.  That was a treat.  Peanut butter and bread – that’s all.  I think any jelly we had was home made.

K: So your mum did a lot of canning or not?

M: Some – I mean she used whatever she got.  I can remember one thing – we liked it – I don’t think I’d like it today – tomato preserves.  That’s the thing you used in place of jam or jelly you know.

K: Do you learn to can from her?

M: Oh no – I didn’t know sickem.  I didn’t know how to do anything.  Evidently, all I had to do was dishes.  The one thing she always liked me doing- I learnt when I went south to make pies – how I’d crinkle my pies all around.  She had me do that.  But as far as making pies – I didn’t.

K: So you learnt that after you came the farm huh?

M: Yep – after I had to chop them up with an axe

K: Your first offerings were rather hard?

M: Bad.  Grandma Diggins told your dad.  “No matter what she fixes – you don’t say anything.”  He didn’t tell me this till years later.  No matter what, so he never said anything. Pies you need an axe and bread you needed a saw.

B: Marge what sort of transport did you have in those days

M: Your feet …  mostly.  Like on Saturday night sometimes my mother and I would walk over to South Omaha and a little Mexican Church.  We’d go to Confession over there but we walked over and sometimes when we’d go over to South Omaha maybe we’d take our wagon if we were going to get some groceries.  I don’t ever remember my mother going shopping for groceries other that to the little old market where you’d get vegetables.  I don’t ever remember her shopping for groceries but we’d take our little old red wagon and go over to – course that was on 24^th street and we lived on 39^th – quite a little walk.  Go over there and get …… ‘Pigerly Wigerly’ had their meat on sale

K: There was a store called ‘Pigerly Wigerly?’

M: ‘Pigerly Wigerly’ – huh, huh  See near our house we had a store – really just down the alley.  So that’s where most of the shopping was done.  But specials – no. 

TAPE1 SIDE 2 start

Course we never had a car in our family.  We never had a car in the family for certain till Kath married Joe and then they lived with us you know.  But no, you either got on the street car which was just half a block from us.  My dad rode it of course cause he had to go to work at 4 o’clock in the morning.  The rest of us it was mostly on foot.

B: Did you ever travel to another State or go by train somewhere

M: Oh no but only in later years like when I was in High School we went to Chicago on a train to visit Mary – Shum and I together.  No I think Mary was back and we went back with them and then we come back on the train.  So we drove with them in their car and came back on the train.

K: What was Mary’s husband that you like so well

M: The last one – Jim Mc Neil.  She had a husband before Jim.  Pity they couldn’t have met their last ones first

B: Now Marge what about telephone and radio

M: Yeah, we had a telephone, one where you pushed buttons you know or you called the operator.  Our number at home was 3466.  So you’d just get on the line and you talked to the operator and she got your number for you.  As far the radio went, you only turned it on for special occasions.  It was a Filco – I can just remember it on a table.  You didn’t get to listen to it very often.

B: Did you have a favourite program you sometimes listened to

M: At home we didn’t do that much but if would go down our street – Amos and Andy was on it.  You could hear it – you didn’t need another radio.  Especially the Mc Kearnans – see they sat outside a lot in the summer and so they’d have that thing just going full blast.  So we’d listen to Amos and Andy that way but you know we just didn’t stay in the house that much to listen to.  When you got a chance to be out – we were out.  If you weren’t in there doing something, you were outside.  No such thing as just loathing around in the house.

B: Now Marg the rather big topic of religion.  How did you get your religious training and what religion has meant for you in your life?

M: Oh, I went to the Dominicans.  Like I said, they thought I was going to be one of them cause they’d say to me ‘we’ll see you in Kentucky.”  That’s where their mother house was.  I really thought maybe I might make it.  Cause I thought that that was a pretty nice life.

K: But your mum and dad were very devoted Catholics

M: Oh, Catholics – there was nothing else but Catholics because as far as going to anything in those days you went to nothing at another church.  You wouldn’t think about going to a dinner there.  You’d feel you were going to get excommunicated

K: And there wasn’t any intermarriage between a Protestant and a Catholic?

M: No – not back then

B: Did your mother teach you prayers

M: I think there was so many of us, we taught one another because we did say the rosary an awful lot as a family.  I can remember kneeling on the living room floor. ………. At school religion was always great for me – almost anything.  I’d have other kids calling me on the phone asking questions about – how do you answer this one. 

B: So you enjoyed your religious classes?

M: I did very much because it was part of the curriculum you know that just fit right in and Bible history – not the Bible but Bible history

B: Yeah, Catholics didn’t really use the Bible very much

M: No they sure didn’t use the Bible but like I said we had a lot of Bible history and the regular catechism as they called it then

B: Can you remember your first Confession and First Communion?

M: The first communion – the little girls course they all wore the white dresses and the veil and then they had a wreath of little white flowers that was on top of that.  The florist was Kitty Coroner from the grave yard Zadinas.  That’s where we all had to get our wreaths for our hair and the boys, most of them had little suits – dark suits.  You never saw them again.  Maybe they wore them again at Easter – I don’t know.  But St. Mary’s didn’t have a dress code or anything.  We just wore whatever clothes we had.  We made our fist communion and confession in the second grade.  And Confirmation you had to be …… what …12.  So that was a little later on.  That was a big day too.

B: Did they make a big deal about when the Bishop hit you on the cheek?

M: Oh, yeah.  You were waiting for the other one.  Just how hard was he going to hit you and what you were really worried about.  The Bishop was really going to quiz you on your religion and I think every kid was sitting there scared to death they were going to be one they were going to be the one that would have to answer.  Oh, no it wasn’t like that at all.  My sponsor might have been Mrs Jelly, but I’m not sure because she was everything that went on in the Church

B: And of course you took all the kids to Church over the years

M: Oh yeah.  We had over three blocks to walk.  In our Church then they used to have this book you could look at it and see how much everybody in the Parish really gave and you looked at that sometimes, even as a kid and you’d think- huh, how come our family could give more than that family that you really thought had something you know.  Course, you never talked about it or anything – that was nobody’s business.

B: I suppose, a little bit of a hard topic but sometimes I talked to mum I’d say “Look when you pass away what sort of songs would you like at your funeral?” and all this sort of stuff and she’d say want …….. and I must ask her again when I get back which ones she’d like because she’s got a few picked out and she barracks for Hawthorn and she wants the Hawthorn colours drapped and all this sort of thing.  Do you have anything in particular or you don’t care

M: I don’t really care.  There’s always going to be an Irish song of some kind because I think I really got that started and now it seems like they all, in our families anyhow – they always have Danny Boy.

B: That was a favorite in our family because Dad’s name was Danny

M: I started that – I asked them to do it, especially with Brian and always through the family then.  At funeral masses they always have Danny Boy.

B: Well that’s amazing because that’s the favorite in our family too

M: It was hard for me to listen to it for a long time you know afterwards

B: Course you brought up all the kids here at Magnolia Parish and you had a really good community spirit there

M: Oh we sure did.  We had religion after Sunday morning you know.  I taught a religion class too.  Trying to hang on to kids or there dad trying to hang on to them.  Course, I had little babies you know.  Well then we went over to Logan.  I went there too and taught a class for a few years.  I didn’t bring Treats like Maryann does.  I would have a lesson or something to talk about.

B: How many kids did you teach?

M: What did I have – the 7^th and 8^th one year and I think 5^th and 6^th the other year.  I think there was only 2 years that I taught maybe more.  About 15 kids in the classes

B: How did you handle them?  Did they pay attention?

M: I did.  There were some kids who wanted to make a little trouble so I’d separate them.  And to make things interesting sometimes I just take my old Bible and let the kids look through them too.

B: Over all the year did you have a favorite priest who you really related to or you thought a lot of?

M: Well Fr. O’Connor – he was here every other weekend for supper and like I said no matter what – I didn’t have a dryer in those days – everything hung up.  I’d be bringing in baskets of clothes and things might have been a little bit messy and I’d say, “Father, you’ll have to excuse me” but he’d say “That’s what keeps you young.”

B: Now was Fr. O’Connor the one that Maryann said something about ‘your dead butt’ – what was that story?

M: Yeah – because every time when he came in he’d say to me “Missus put a glass of water in for me so it will be cold for me.”  Well this one time here, he happened to be sitting down in the gun room and he said “Missus will you put a glass of water in for me,” and Maryann said “Get off your dead butt and do it yourself.”  He said, “Missus what did she say” and I said “I don’t know.”  Oh yeah.

B: Sounds like he was a little bit hard of hearing.

M: Oh he heard all right but he couldn’t believe it I think.  Oh, the kids used to do a lot of things to him you know.  The one time he came and he said to Mick, Mike he called him Mickey.  “Come here and see what I’ve got in my hand – I’ve got a dime in here for you.  He picked up a big stick in the yard – he was tiny.  “You better!”  I think he did have a dime in his hand but Mike came at him with a stick anyhow.  And then another time the weeds were kind of high down by the mail box and Father had put – he always bought them Hershey bars and he made them search for them on him.  Like he’d shut his eyes like he was sleeping – he was teaching them a great thing – how to steal.  So they’d steal the Hershey bars out of his pocket.  So this one time Brian, he was like Olivia’s age and he watched Father put those Hershey bars in the mailbox and the kids came into the house after awhile and he said, “You’d better go down and see what the little people left in the mailbox.”  Well, I was watching Brian and Brian had already hit the mail box and he took those candy bars and went in the weeds and the other kids came back.  “There’s nothing in that mailbox!”  “Oh yes!”  No, Brian had already gotten the candy bars.  I was watching out the window – watching him do it.

B: And how many years was Fr. O’Connor around for?

M: Gosh – he came when Terry was born and he left well.  Terry was the first baby he baptized here in October.  He said “Terrence, is that, you know, a religious name?”  I said yeah “It’s a derivative of Teresa I think but at least its Irish” ………. “oh!” The second name being Dominic.  Course I remember growing up if you had any of those strange names – Terrence wouldn’t have been strange to an Irish priest.  I remember a family they named their daughter Shirley and when they went to get their birth certificate it wasn’t Shirley, she had another name because there isn’t no Saint Shirley.

B: And a lot of those Saints have gone by the board now

M: Oh, yes and now they call them almost anything now – don’t even question at all.

B: And did he only have Magnolia Parish.

M: No – he had Pisgah too.  So every Saturday and Sunday you know he had to come – there wasn’t no Saturday night masses then so he’d come down and have supper here Saturday night and then he’d either go to Mrs Mc Phee’s or out to the Riordan’s to sleep that night.  There weren’t any room here – too many kids you know and then he’d say Mass in the morning and then somebody would take him back to Pisgah and he’d say the Mass up there.

B: Oh, so you had a morning Mass here on Sunday and a later Mass down at Pisgah

M: Oh yeah.  We had 7:30 Mass or 8 o’clock and up there Pisgah it would be 10:30 I think or vice versa, he’d switch them around.

B: Who was that priest that used to walk

M: It was Fr. O’Connor.

B: Walking from Pisgah

M: He was as pigeon toed as they came.  There he’d come and people would pick him up and give him a ride.  Bring him to Magnolia you know.  Sometimes, I guess they’d just dump him off down on the highway because he’d come walking down the road and in his basket he had his hosts and things like that that he carried with him.  But he was a good old Irish Priest.  But people would give him rides.  I know the Figies gave him a ride one time and he was saying his office – that’s what he was doing, and Mrs. Figy was trying to talk to him trying to just make conversation.  And he just said to her “Would you be quiet, I’m trying to say my office.”  Good thing she didn’t mind cause she just laughed about it.  She told me about it but somebody else might say “Oh just get out of the car then”.  But he was a great old priest.  We had a lot of good priest though.  We had some I didn’t care a lot for.  I like our Father John now.

B: He was very good to you at the hospital wasn’t he

M: Well then he came here you know.  Very good, he just knew there was nothing going to happen to me

B: Yeah he did, he was quite certain about that

M: Yup

TAPE 1 SIDE B

K: OK, ma we’ll talk again about the election a little bit.  You said, Dad said he didn’t think he was going to win, being a Democrat and all

M: I didn’t think either.  I didn’t even bother to go with him the night of the election.  Well I couldn’t have anyhow, I had little babies around.  Cause that was 1960 you know and I was expecting Brian too.  No that was the next year – 62.  I stayed up and watched the elections and everything.  That’s when I’d bake up a storm and watch the elections on TV.  Gale Foland, he spose he’d been up town watching the elections and maybe he even went out to – you know his folks had a farm out there – maybe he’d been out there or something.  Anyhow he’d stop in two o’clock in the morning cause he saw lights on and I’d give him a cup of coffee – whatever I was baking.  Then your dad got home somewhere around – gosh I don’t know what time it was – maybe four o’clock in the morning or something like that.  “Well – I won!” “No!”.  That was the beginning.

K: Did he win by much ma?

M: I think so – for 10 years.  Yeah, he just didn’t squeak by any time.  He really picked up the vote.  At first I know Bill Tierney was our county chairman you know – Democratic County chairman.  First I thought, in this county, I don’t know.  Whether you’re a graduate from Creighton University, whether that was pushing the religious part you know and I thought: : “I don’t know if that’s such a good idea.”  On his cards and everything – a graduate from Creighton University.  I didn’t know if that was going to be such a good idea.  Turned out to one of the better ones cause somebody running for supervisor and they’ve got a College degree.  It turned out to be a real good one. Bill was right – for 10 years anyhow.

K: And were you chairman of the Democratic party at one point?

M: No – we just went to everything.  I’d take our bunch of kids.  Cause that impressed people too.  You had your bunch of kids and there you were.  I know we went to one – must have been up at Dunlap – I think what they have as a Tri county fair or something like that.  That’s when we had our group picture and that was in the Democratic booth – out where everyone could see it.  But I had nice compliments cause everybody wanted to know where the mother was.

K: Gee – that how young you looked then ma

M: And that wasn’t such a good picture because I think when we had that picture taken I had just gotten out of the hospital two days before – had surgery.  I think I’d gotten out on a Friday or something like that and we had this picture taken on Sunday in the Valley.  They guy had never taken that bigger group before.  He had you kids sitting on books and everything else and we were kind of hanging on to you.  We were sitting on a platform – there wouldn’t be a kid toppling off on the side or something till they got the pictures taken anyhow

K: And wasn’t I mad too because I couldn’t be taller that Mary Ann – what was that?

M: I don’t know – you realise you both had the same dress on.  I think you didn’t like that very well either.  But you did, I dressed you both, somewhat alike.

K: Yeah – most of the time.

M: Uh uh

K: And Mike looks a bit squeezed

M: And you look at Pat – she’s got short hair there.  That’s when I was in the hospital and Emily and Mike decided to cut her hair so I wouldn’t have so much to take care of when I got out of the hospital and I remember coming home.  Evidentially I went to Church that Sunday.  Bill O’Rourke was the first to say- “What did you do to her hair – Pat?”  I think you and Emily and Mike kept yours sometimes in the daytime.  Cause the one thing I remember they said – Mary Ann was laying on the couch.  Uncle Mike was out on the grill doing hotdogs and things and he came to Mary Ann with the hotdog.  “Got a hotdog for you.” She said “I don’t like hotdogs.”  He said “Every little kid likes hot dogs.” “This little kid doesn’t.”  And she didn’t.  You kids didn’t go for hot dogs much – we never had them that much cause you’re dad didn’t think they were that good a food value you know.  You guys had your steak and roasts and everything.  You didn’t get all that second hand meat – garbage stuff.

K: You know how Fr. O’Connor used to come out every other Saturday night and who did he stay with ma?

M: Mrs McPhee - Grandma McPhee – where the old McPhee house is you know.  That’s where she lived and once and awhile he’d go out to Riordan’s and stay but he’d always have supper here but there was no room for him to sleep but he had supper here all the time.  I usually fixed stew – cause that was his favourite and he usually had apple pie for dessert – that was one of his favourites.  Cause he said he wrote home to Ireland one time and he told them – he didn’t miss his stew because he was able to get it right here.

K: And then he had you put a glass of water in the fridge.

M: Always – he wanted water with his meal besides coffee or tea.  We didn’t make tea for him because he didn’t believe in those tea bags.  He thought they were worthless.  But anyhow he came into the house and he went in and sat down like he usually did.  “Missus put a glass so it will be cold for my supper.” Mary Ann said “Get off your dead butt and do it yourself.” And he said Missus what did she say and I said “I don’t know.” I thought if you didn’t hear that I not going to tell you.

K: Oh no but who chased poor Fr. O’Connor around the Church with a stick or something.

M: No – out here in the yard.  He called Mike – he always called him Mickey.  “Mickey, come here – I’ve got a dime for you.  Mike picked up a big stick in the yard.  “You better have one!”  And then another time when he always bought you Hershey bars and he made you go through his clothes.  He was teaching you to steal.  Once and while he’d put them in the mailbox and he’d say.  “You’ve got to go to the mailbox see what the little people left.  But, the one time, Brian was out there and he watched him and he put those Hersheys in the mailbox and at that time the weeds there were real high.  Brian went and got those Hershey bars – went in the weeds and ate them.  And I spose the kids – Mike and Mary Ann and you went down to the mailbox to get your Hersheys and you came back and told him there was no candy bars in there.  “Oh…….I saw the little people” “No there’s not.” Anyhow I watched Brian do it.  I was looking out the window watching him to the whole thing.  But Father would always sit in his chair and pretend that he was sleeping.  He’d have the candy bars in his pockets and you were supposed to come and swipe them out of his pockets.  Talk about going face to face.  We went to Confession face to face long before they ever started it in the Church.  Everybody came out here ……. there was once stipulation, you were out here on weekends – so there was some people who didn’t come cause you went face to face.

K: Cause didn’t Father usually stay in the gunroom?

M: Yep – right in the gunroom in a chair and we knelt beside him.

K: We always thought there was too many of us and he wouldn’t know which was which but he forgot say .. “and I didn’t miss mass” as part of your ….  He’d say “and did you go to Mass Kathleen?”  Oh, rats I does know who was who.  I don’t how we thought we would be anonymous.  But he told us lots of stories sitting at the table didn’t he?

M: Yeah he did – about the little people and the Banshees and the dead coats and the little horses you know – those little ponies that were ridden by the little people – that’s what he said.

K: But do you remember at some time probably when we were a little bit older would he ever walk in an American graveyard at night?  And he thought for awhile and he said “Yes.” And we said would you walk in an Irish one and he said “No.”  But he taught us a lot and he also taught us about how the priests and the nuns when they led the marches against the English you know – soldiers and how they would be shot down in cold blood.

M: But he also taught you how to put jelly on your potatoes

K: That’s right.  Mary Ann – I liked it too

M: Yes you did – I never had to eat it.  And Sharon – she never like cabbage you know in her life.  Well whoever sat next to Father, he fix your plates and it happened to be Sharon one time.  Fixed her plate – put all this cabbage on.  She discovered cabbage was pretty good from that day on – I think she could eat a head of cabbage herself.

(repeat of earlier detail about Fr. O’Connor travelling to Pisgah)

K: Sometimes Father would stay with Mrs McPhee

M: She was a nice old lady.  She used to laugh ….. us with all our kids and everything.  And your dad always had a smoke – you know rolled his own cigarettes and he’d have a can of tobacco in his shirt pocket and she used to watch him in Church.  The kids used to just playing around they go to hit and there would be the tobacco can.  She just laughed and then so they wouldn’t get hurt he’d probably switch it to his back pocket or something and then one of them would kind of hit him from the back and hit the can again.  She was taking all this in during mass.

K: Well it was in Latin

M: And not just our kids but he did use his teeth as a rattle.  He’d rattle his false teeth at the kids to keep them quiet

K: I think Bill and Mary O’Rourke were saying that people weren’t moving very fast out of the Church – dad just stepped out of one of the windows.

M: He did

K: And I also remember somebody got their fingers pinched

M: It was one of the Shimmer girls.  They’ve all grown up and got families of their own now – Anise Shimmer – that would be their grandmother.  She came to Church with one of the girls – she had more than one.  But that one seat in Church.  I don’t know if it was the second seat up on the left hand side or the third one but always people sat and the seat would go down and it would leave a space and then when you would get up – that space would be closed.  But one of those little Shimmer girls – she let out this blood curdling scream.  Your dad didn’t think anything – your dad jumped up and stepped on that seat and got her fingers out.

K: Would that be Renee that the kids go to

M: It could be – could have been her.  It was one of them.  I don’t think they ever did fix that seat.

K: Well whatever did happen to all that stuff that was there in the Church – it got sent over to Logan I spose.

M: Yeah – the newer stuff.  I don’t know where the pews and things – where they went.  Well, I think a few people just took a few home with them too and I think a few of the better ones went to another Church and a few of the other ones just got tossed.  We even had one out here at one time.  We’ve got the cross from the altar.

K: Frank Riordan gave that to you?

M: Yep - Frank and Ila – they took it home with them and they just gave it to us.  And then I think the Holy Water.  I don’t know if it was the O’Rourke who donated that or who.  So they tried to give back to people – Bill would probably know if he could remember you know.  But I know that some of the statues too that had been donated by people – I think they gave them back to them too if they wanted them.

K: Ma do you remember who the Senator was who helped dad when he went to Washington about the flooding back here

M: Senator Evert Dirkson

K: And his other name was?

M: Fish mouth.

TAPE 2 SIDE ONE

K: You graduated from South at about 18 and about how longer after that did you come out with Agnes Kansela to the farm here and met dad?

M: In the summer time of my 18th birthday

K: And was it love at first sight or did you just think he was a nice guy

M: Just a nice person

K: And you came out with another guy did you on the back of a motor cycle

M: Not the first time we didn't.  No Agnes and I - I don't know who we came out with.  Maybe that's how we did come out.  Yeah - I think we did.  But how did you get here then?  I think it was a car the first time.

K: So that's the summer after your High School graduation.  How much longer after that did Dad ask you to marry him.

M: Oh, gosh - all that summer.  See I was 20 when I was married

K: But you met him a few times cause you came out here.  Did he ever come into Omaha to see you

M: Yeah - eventually

K: Started courting you in there

M: Like Creighton used to have football at that time - went to a Creighton football game with a Pharmacist in Pisgah and Magnolia - both places - and his wife.  He was a Creighton graduate.  So we went to the game together.  Nothing much else.  I don't know if we went to a movie or anything.

K: Mostly he just visited you at your home?

M: Yep.

K: Did you date any other guys before you dated Dad?

M: Sure  I dated a lot of people before I dated your Dad

K: You did

M: Yeah - lots of people

K: But none of them took you as he did.  None of them tripped your trigger - or yanked your chain.

M: Is that what it is

K: He was tall dark and handsome

M: Yep - he was 11 years older than me

K: And he'd been back on the farm - how long at that stage

M: He came back in 36 I think

K: So he'd only been back a few years

M: It wasn't good times either because it was dry weather - so he ran into rough times.  They worked on the roads and everything just to have an income - they didn't have crops and things

K: And when did he graduate from Creighton

M: 1928 - he hadn't been in New York very long - what, a couple of years.

K: He lived that long in New York

M: Until he was called back home.  Sure - he went any place.  Everybody was going around looking for jobs.

K: But he'd lived in Chicago hadn't he

M: Yup.

K: And he had to get out of there - his run in with the mafia

M: No, no - he just moved on to something better.  There were cousins that lived in Chicago.  The mafia was in New York.  The mafia just came into the restaurant that he worked in - that was all.

K: I thought it was a grocery store

M: No, no - he worked in a restaurant because he talked about how the Italians came in.  He said they ate more bread than anybody - I suppose they did because it filled them up.  That's where he saw some of the Mafia and where he could see people lying in the streets - people just walked over them - every day occurrence I guess

K: So was it before or after New York that Dad went down to Texas or whatever it was.  Didn't he pick apples in the South or something.

M: Not that I know - no they just travelled down there I think looking for jobs on the freight trains.  They'd even share an onion

K: Yeah, Dad rode the trains didn't he

M: Yup - that's the only transportation they had.  He left his graduation rings and that with Aunt Teresa because in those days you didn't dare have a big ring on as he said "They'd bite your finger off to get your ring."

K: Didn't he have a run in with the Texas Rangers

M: Not that I know of.

K:  What did he do in Chicago?

M: At one time he worked in the packing house because he was thinking of going on to law school and then he had to work in the fertilizer plant.  He said you just couldn't get that smell out of you - so he knew he couldn't go to class.  Otherwise he'd probably have been a lawyer cause Dad always thought he should be a lawyer because he had those long fingers you know he was either going to a piano player or a lawyer.

K: Now did you get to meet his Dad

M: No - never - he died in 36

K: And that's when Uncle Tom said he wanted to go to California

M: He wanted to leave the farm - cause they didn't go to California right away - they moved to Omaha.  Lived in Omaha for quite a while - there was a couple of kids born in Omaha and then they moved out there.  Tommy was the one I think who was born in California. Veronica didn't like the farm.

K: She originally came from Missouri Valley

M: Yup - she was always real shy and very very young too - 16 or something like that when he married her

K: Was he quite a bit older than her too

M: Yeah, about 10 years I think

K: So Dad came back and started to run the farm

M: Yeah - didn't know too much about farming but he farmed anyhow.  Some of the neighbours would say to him, cause he'd say "Get up little doggies or whatever to the horses" - "so if you can't cuss like a man get off the machine."

K: They wanted him to act like a farmer uh.

M: It was hard for him cause he didn't know anything.  He'd pick corn in his days you know but as far as planting any crops he never done that

K: I wonder why he took over the farm instead of trying to get a job as an accountant or whatever

M: His mother needed him here.  His mother was here all the time - this was her home.  She needed somebody with her.   I suppose he had been looking for accountants jobs but they were few and far between.

K: Cause that's kind of the area he graduated in

M: That was it - sure - accounting!

K: Now name Dad's brothers for me and sisters.

M: Noni comes first and then Butch, then Mike, then John, then Teresa, Tom, your Dad born in 1908 and he was the last one.

K: He had a still born brother as well

M: Supposedly yeah

K: Wasn't he supposed to be the 7th son of a 7th son?

M: Yeah - I can't figure that one.  Yeah that's what I'd always heard.  We should have asked because Grandma Diggins could have answered everything

K: What was Grandma Diggins like

M: She was a very gentle lady - you couldn't help but like her - very quiet

K: Quite the opposite of her husband uh?

M: Yeah - I guess.  He was a firebrand but I never really heard anything really bad about their Dad.  I never heard your Dad say anything.  There was nothing mean or nasty about him ever

K: I just heard he had a bit of a temper

M: Yeah

K: Was Grandma somehow related to John L. Sullivan?

M: Yeah - somehow he's in there

K: And your mother was related to Jack Dempsey

M: Uh ha - somewhere, in between either mother or dad

K: Didn't your Dad go and see Dempsey fight in Chicago

M: I think Aunt Mary took him one time when she was there, when she was visiting her in Chicago

K: So Grandma Diggins didn't speak about Ireland either - no she was the one who was born in Springfield Missouri

M: Just as they got off the boat as they called it

K: But didn't their people come down through Canada

M: I think so - not through Boston like we did

K: Grandpa Diggins - he came through New York didn't he

M: Uh ha!

K: But it was Grandma Diggins who came through Canada like a lot of the Irish did too

M: Yep but not my folks, they came through Boston

K: What year did Grandma Diggins die ma

M: Must have been about 47 because I was expecting Jim then

K: And your dad didn't die until ......

M: 53 - that's when Pat was about three months old

K: Cause Maureen says she remembers your dad

M: Sure, I bet she does

K: And I think she remembers Grandma Diggins too

M: She could - she seemed old - her hair was white though - that's the reason I think

K: Was she the one who taught you how to cook

M: No - I learnt on my own.  Nobody taught me how to cook because there was nobody here.  She didn't believe in just jumping in but she told your dad no matter what I cooked or baked or whatever - "eat it and don't say a word" and he did.  He didn't tell me for years though - even though the pies you used an axe and the bread you used a saw.

K: And what's the story - wasn't it you about the hound dogs having baking powder biscuits in their jaws

M: No that was Margaret Meeka Kansela.  We just kidded her about it - it was the biscuits out in the yard - we said the dogs buried them and then they dug them up and Mertle and Wetsyle bulldog put the biscuits in their jaws - didn't have any teeth - didn't know what to do with them.

K: Now ma do you want to tell the story about how Dad proposed to you?  Didn't he propose out in the pasture and he carried you through a thorny patch.

M: Gee, you're remembering better than I am.

K: Don't you remember - you told me about it years ago that you guys went for a walk.

M: We went across the creek - clear across the creek.  That's when we used to have the bridge down here you know.  Walked over there - it was a Sunday afternoon I guess.  And we had dinner - I was going to help do dishes.  Grandma Diggins said "No - go for your walk." So, I did with him.  So that's when he asked me to marry him.

K: Did he say "Will you do me the honour of being my wife."

M: No - "How would you feel about living on a farm".   I said "OK."

K: How sweet.  But don't you remember the thistles.

M: Oh yeah - he carried me through them

K: So you didn't have to walk through the thistle patch

M: But I was a light weight in those days

K: Like 90 lb

M: Something like that or 100

K: So you remember what month he proposed

M: Maybe September

K: And what month did you get married

M: November

K: Heavens - you didn't wait around long

M: Um um

K: Who was the first person you told - was it grandma when you came back

M: Yeah

K: And what did your dad say when you went home and told him or did dad go with you

M: Your Dad came to ask for my hand in marriage to my Dad and my dad just kind of walked the floor back and forth, back and forth - didn't know whether is should be a 'yes' or a 'no' I guess

K: So Dad just had to sit there and wait

M: Yep - till he got through walking the floor then he decided OK - I guess

K: At least he knew it was a good Irish Catholic boy

M: Yup

K: And who helped you sort out your wedding ma

M: Kath - she was there for me.  We did everything ourselves except the breakfast that we had - the wedding breakfast.  We had a wedding shower beforehand where everyone brought gifts.  Agnes was my bridesmaid so she was suppose to be giving it - but it was between Agnes, Aunt Kath and me.  We fixed everything up at our house.  A lot of people came.

K: What was your wedding day ma?

M: Monday - November 13th 1939. Eight o'clock in the morning.  Those days you didn't get late afternoon weddings at all.  You had it in the morning and you waited your turn.

K: Cause you had to take Communion uh

M: Sure

K: Because it was a Nuptial Mass and everything

M: And tell us the story how Dad came round to wake you guys up because you were still sleeping

M: We all were - the whole family.  The whole house was asleep and he woke us up to get ready.  That's terrible

K: Your wedding day

M: Well, I was exhausted I guess - going, going, going

K: And who helped you get dressed for your wedding

M: Aunt Kath and Agnes and I wore Aunt Kath's wedding dress and Emily's veil.  It was just a short one.  That's what I wanted - the rest of the clothes belonged to me.

K: Did you do something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue - did you do that or not

M: I don't remember doing all that.  I know I wore - like, my shoes were 3 inches for heels

K: Oh my gosh

M: I couldn't even think of walking on anything like that now

K: And you got beautiful flowers

M: We got that down - I don't know if the florist is still there or not - across from St. Marys - the Cemetry - Zadeenas, it was called

K: And you took your actual pictures

M: Ishy I think the name was and that was done on the day of the wedding and they kept that picture in their window for a long time - just advertisement

K: Did they give you any money off for it

M: No - today I'd say "Where's my kickback."  And I'm looking at my hair and I'm thinking - I fixed my own hair you know.  Nowadays, you wouldn't even do your own hair.  But who had money to do all that kind of stuff.  And then we went to breakfast and we had - it was a brunch really, and I decided we'd have chicken.  Your Dad liked chicken like I don't know what - yuk! but he ate it and didn't say anything.

K: So who were at the brunch

M: Mostly just the wedding party - course my Dad.

K: And your brother Joe stood for Dad - he didn't want one of his own brother to stand for him

M: Evidentially not

K: Course, Agnes being your best friend

M: That's something the Kansela girls didn't know - that she stood for me at the wedding.

K: So she went from being your best friend to being your niece

M: Right - she was Noni's daughter.  Out home we just had things like cake and coffee and tea and stuff like that after the brunch.

K: Did you have your wedding dress on at your brunch

M: Oh yeah and I kept it on till I got home - till we got all the way out here.  Your dad had to come home and do chores.  He had a brand new suit.

K: And what did he pay for your beautiful engagement ring ma that you ended up loosing or getting stolen.  Was it 3 hogs or something.

M: A whole bunch of hogs for engagement and wedding ring - both lost!  And they were beautiful.  Had more diamonds in them - each one had 7 diamonds.  Where they disappeared to, whoever knew.  Somebody had to take them out of my china closet.  Whether somebody came in, took them and hulked them - what else would they have done with them.  The China cabinet was where the wood burning stove is today.

K: Shame isn't it - so what did you have for a ring after that

M: I didn't - I didn't need any rings

K: But you do have your lovely mother ring

M: I sure do

K: It's got 2 diamonds and a few rubees, emeralds - very nice

M: All ten - yeah

K: So you had Jeany in what year mum

M: 1941 and she died after 8 months - her lungs weren't right.  They didn't have everything like they do now.  Now she would have been OK I think.

K: Eight months - that would have been terrible

M: Yeah - it was

K: And they said she was really cute too.

M: I never did see her

K: They never believed in it in those day did they?

M: No, no I had a terrible cold and they didn't want me anywhere near anybody or anything.  They wouldn't want you near a nursery.

K: How long did she live ma

M: About 4 hours I think - sometime in the night.  And then they had to call your Dad who was out at Kansela's and they didn't have a phone.  They called over to Ormans, right next door to Kanselas - told your Dad to come to the hospital as soon as he could and he came with his mother.

K: And that's when he found that Jeany had passed away.  What was her full name ma

M: Jean Catherine

K: I always like the name Jean since I was a little biddy kid so that's why I called her Jean - Catherine after my mother and Aunt Kath of course

K: Just like I was named after your mum

M: Yup

K: And you had Maureen in 42 the very next year - I suppose you were afraid

M: Yeah, I was afraid every time

K: All the rest of the 9 of us

M: Yep - but there's nothing I could do - take it as it came I guess

K: Did you rest up in the last couple of months - not do quite as much

M: That's why we had hired girls - Mary Buffin was one of them and then Margaret Meeker and they done some of the hard stuff for me - scrubbing - but I still kept going - and then after that I was on my own.

K: Oh gosh - you really could have used them down the line.  Your first baby in 41 and your last one in 62.  Tell us what the house was like when you first came out to live.  What there was and what there wasn't.

M: Well there wasn't any inside plumbing that's for sure - no water of any description other than going to the well and getting a bucket of water - to do dishes, to wash your hands - whatever.  We also had rain water that went to an underground tank and it could be used for dishes or washing clothes or taking a bath but that's about the extent of that.  But it took a lot of water for cooking.  Some people cooked with that rain water but I never did.  I wouldn't have it in my food you don't know how much bird 'do do' was in it.

K: And you had the old wood burning stove

M: Yep - for sure

K: What did you have as a refrigerator?

M: At first we used that little old rain water catcher and you'd cover up things with rope and then after that we had the 'icer boxer' that you had to go and get ice for.  That got so that you couldn't get ice any more

K: Where did you get ice from ma

M: Logan - they had a little ice house there or something.  Then after that we had a little kerosene refrigerator.  It was a big nuisance.  Your Dad was always working on it for some reason.  Just like kerosene lamps.  You had to keep them clean.

K: Who came out

M: Bob Kansela was living out here then because Grandma really raised him.  After that lots of people stayed like Tiger, old Tom Kansela, Agnes, Mary Catherine - they all came and stayed at different times.  Mary Catherine went to an orphanage in Omaha called St. James I think because Grandma couldn't look after both.

From here on will be a summary only with essential dialogue as well:

K: Did you ever have rats in the house ma?

M: One time.  There was a hole in the porch out there and it got in.  I was up feeding the baby - I don't remember which baby - 2 o'clock in the morning.  So your Dad goes in and grabs the shotgun.  I'm standing up on top of a chair.  So he's in the bathroom, he thinks he's got it cornered.  I thought he's going to shoot that gun off and we're going to have more holes.  Anyhow the thing got in but it went out the same way and he didn't have to shoot off his gun.  Of course right away he plugged that hole - fixed it up the next day.

TAPE 2 SIDE B

K: Did you ever help with any chores outside ma?

M: Oh yeah - one year I broke my teeth off - your Dad had the flu and I can do the chores.  We had a lot of hogs - I went out to feed them.  I can do that and I did.  And I swung my belt buckle up - smacked into my mouth - broke my teeth off, and it numbed it for a little bit you know and it hurt like heck too.

K: Were you swinging at the hogs or something

M: Shovelling out all sorts of ear corn to feed em and I swung and hit my belt buckle right up and hit me in the mouth.  That was expensive - that's when a flu shot would have come in handy.

K: So you hit the belt buckle of your coat

M: Against my teeth

K: What propelled it was the shovel

M: Yup

K: So what did you do, you had to come in and tell Dad - I suppose your mouth was bleeding.

M: Sure it was

K: Didn't Sean used to say you could wing your shoe around corners

M: Yeah - he did - cause they've got a few of them.  I could be sitting here and he swore I could send that shoe around the corner and out the door and he never forgot it so I must have done it.

K: What was the story about Tiger Kansela, the tractor and the creek

M: I believe he was harrowing and your Dad said: "Don't go too near the creek and keep your eyes straight ahead."  Well somehow or other he didn't keep his eyes straight ahead and he didn't stay away from the creek.  So over he went, tractor and all.  But the tractor went one way and he went the other - luckily!  Well there he was - tractor in the creek.  Later on that day they were working to get the tractor out and they got it out anyhow.  So they brought it up.  And we used to have a gas tank out here and they parked it in front of the gas tank and your Dad said: "under no circumstances does anybody light any matches around because remember this tractor's been tipped over and gas has spilled.  Anyhow they were out there.  Tige somehow or other heard something - dogs or toads or something and he lit a match to see where they were.  Boom - there went the tractor.  But he funny part of that one was - that's when we had an out house - my brother Bill was in the outhouse and I looked out and I looked out and I see everything in flames.  I go to the outhouse and knock on the door and I said - "Get out of there quick cause we're going to go up in flames if you don't.  He part way get his pants up and I take off down through the fields.

K: Cause did you think the big gas tank was going to go too

M: Sure - sure.  Afterwards, your Dad said - "It was just you and your brother wasn't it - you got him to safety

K: That's before you had any kids

M: Yeah

Tape 3 side 1:

MARG 2013